Wednesday, October 26, 2005

Put the squeeze on Syria

I'm very glad to see this!

For too long, Syria was able to escape the lenses of the international community of:

1. its brutal human rights record,
2.its occupation of Lebanon (something you never hear the so-called anti-occupation lobby speak about)
3.its iron-grip dictatorship and
4.its support for terrorist groups like the Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and Hamas.

In my mind their is no doubt whatsoever the Syrian regime played part of the assassination of Harriri. And tried to cover it up subsequently.

Don't kid yourself, the death of Kenaan was no "suicide". Crap like this happens in almost ALL the Arab countries. You see, when you think of the Arab leaders. Just think of the Mafia.
The mafia's goal is simple, make easy money. And if anyone within the organization is suspected of being a snitch or knows too much information that can cripple it, that person basically "disappears" or ends up dead in unusual circumstances. Same thing with the secular Arab rulers when it comes to their inner circle. Only the they're goal is the hold to power. And if anyone possesses a threat to this goal, then that person is taken out.

Kenaan basically knew too much, and Assad and his military leaders couldn't afford to keep around a person who has the potential of being a "Rat".

But will this intervention bring results? I doubt it. Its the UN after all.

*BTW, This isn't the first time Syrian Cabinet ministers die or disappear suddenly. It only made headlines this time because of the connection to the Harriri killing.

6 Comments:

At Wednesday, 26 October, 2005, Blogger Dylan said...

Syria's occupation of Lebanon ended Lebanons brutal 15 year civil war where more than 100,000 people were killed. Lest we forget that not only Syria played the role of "bad guy" in the conflict with Israel daily bombing Beirut and the Golan Heights in order to epxand their territory. The US, France, and Russia (USSR at the time) also played politics in Beirut by feeding arms to the militias inside.

Clearly unable to govern itself Syria assumes it's responsibilities. Perhaps this is not the best method of ending a war, but it is better than the Treaty of Versailles or the complete withdrawl of troops leaving the Lebanese people with nothing to govern them at all (as in the case of post-Afghanistan in the 1980's).

Although, for the record, I am glad that Syria has withdrew their miltiary and intelligence forces from Lebanon. And I fully supported the UN resolution calling for Syria to do so.

I would question Syria's "iron-grip dictatorship". What is "iron-grip" about them and what is the measuring stick? Stalin? Hitler? The House of Saud? Any nation that allows religious freedoms to Christians, Muslims and Jews does not have what I would call an "iron-grip" on it's people. Any nation with relative economic freedom also, I would not call, "iron-grip". Does it have a secret police? Yes. Can they watch your every move? Yes. But so can the CIA under the Patriot Act, does that make America "iron-grip". No, instead that makes them "concerned about terrorist activity".

As for political insiders being killed to keep their mouths shut, it happens all the time all over the world. This is not unique to Syria nor should it be a point notable in the reasoning for a "regime change".

This intervention will probably not bring about results simply for the fact that any resolution put to the Security Council will be vetoed by Russia or China - Russia being historical allies with Syria. The problem with the UN is the veto power that is held by the 5 permanent Security council members. Otherwise, the organization is pretty good.

Hezbollah and Hamas... one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. They do some good for the people, but overall their methods are not convincing to any government to give in to their requests for change. If they gave up their armed struggle would they still be terrorists? If it were not for a bumbling international community post-WWII I'm sure Israel and Palestine would both have their own states and live in peace side by side.

 
At Thursday, 27 October, 2005, Blogger The Arabian Knight said...

"Syria's occupation of Lebanon ended Lebanons brutal 15 year civil war where more than 100,000 people were killed."

Sorry Dylan, that's not true. Syria very much took part in the Lebanese civil war between 1975-1990. They sided with Shiite forces in Southern Lebanon against the Israelis, some Lebanese Philagilists against the Palestinians, and sided with the Palestinian against the Lebanese Sunnis. It was in their interest to create disorder and havoc to increase their power and influence within Lebanon.
What ended the civil war was the negotiation that was kick-started by Rafik Harriri (at the time who was residing in Saudi Arabia and had no connection to Syria whatsoever) that lead to the ceasefire among all factions. For you to claim that Syria was responsible for ending of the civil war is blatantly dishonest.

"Lest we forget that not only Syria played the role of "bad guy" in the conflict with Israel daily bombing Beirut and the Golan Heights in order to epxand their territory."

No, again you have your facts mixed up. Israel wasn't in Lebanon to "expand its territory" but to counter the PLO, who at the time was lobby attacks on Israel from Southern Lebanon. They eventually sided with the Philangilists due to their common enemies (The PLO were no sweethearts to the Lebanese Christian community back then I can assure you). Once the PLO withdrew to Tunisia, Israel withdrew from its Beirut posts, but remained in some parts of Southern Lebanon to assist their Lebanese Christian allies, who refused to be in a Lebanon where Syria had the last word on matters.

p.s. the Golan was taken in 1967. Well before the civil war.

"The US, France, and Russia (USSR at the time) also played politics in Beirut by feeding arms to the militias inside."

That I cannot argue with, but what does this have to do with Syria's brutal occupation of Lebanon? When the civil war ended so did the western gun runners in Lebanon. Not so with Syria. They remained.

" Clearly unable to govern itself Syria assumes it's responsibilities. Perhaps this is not the best method of ending a war, but it is better than the Treaty of Versailles or the complete withdrawl of troops leaving the Lebanese people with nothing to govern them at all (as in the case of post-Afghanistan in the 1980's)."

See my refute to the first point. Syria was only in Lebanon to expand its political powers and had nothing to do with humanitarianism. Again, Harriri not Syria, brokered the ceasefire. Syria was willing to go on with the war. While were at it, why don't you fly to Lebanon yourself and ask the Christian Lebanese in the North what the Syrians did to them. Ask the Palestinian refugees if they brought "order" ask the Lebanese ex-prisoners who faced torture, death and the raping of their female relatives at the hands of Syrian soldiers (or no reason other than criticizing the Hafez Al Assad's leadership or called for a Lebanon free of foreign pressure) if Syria's contribution to Lebanon was good?

" Although, for the record, I am glad that Syria has withdrew their military and intelligence forces from Lebanon. And I fully supported the UN resolution calling for Syria to do so."

Forgive me, but I don't believe you. I can't understand how you believed that the occupation of Lebanon was a good thing, yet at the same time call for their withdrawal.

"I would question Syria's "iron-grip dictatorship". What is "iron-grip" about them and what is the measuring stick? Stalin? Hitler? The House of Saud? Any nation that allows religious freedoms to Christians, Muslims and Jews does not have what I would call an "iron-grip" on it's people."

Religious freedom? The Sephardic Jews who left Syria would say otherwise, but let's not get into that right now. As for the measuring stick, how about the UN declaration of Human rights? Would that do?

How about the imprisonment and torture of political dissidents? Hey, how about the imprisonment and re-education camps for homosexuals they have down there? Are those good "measuring sticks" for ya? In my opinion that would put them right into the Stalin/Hitler category.


"Any nation with relative economic freedom also, I would not call, "iron-grip". "

*Shocked* I'm sorry, did you just write that Syria has "relative economic freedom"!!??

"Does it have a secret police? Yes. Can they watch your every move? Yes. But so can the CIA under the Patriot Act, does that make America "iron-grip". No, instead that makes them "concerned about terrorist activity". "

Sorry Dylan, but last I checked there are protests in Washington and New York against the current government every day. Is Cindy Sheehan or Jessie Jackson facing jail time because of those protests? Give me break. And while I agree with you on the Patriot Act (it shouldn't be there), the feared abuse of power on individual liberty never happened. Again your comparing two different levels altogether. Its insane to place dissidents i the U.S. and dissidents in Syria in the same category.


"As for political insiders being killed to keep their mouths shut, it happens all the time all over the world. This is not unique to Syria nor should it be a point notable in the reasoning for a "regime change". "

Actually this silencing helps keep the current status-quo in the middle east (which Al-Qaeda feeds off), which in turn threatens many western nations. So this silencing should be a concern to the US.

"This intervention will probably not bring about results simply for the fact that any resolution put to the Security Council will be vetoed by Russia or China - Russia being historical allies with Syria. The problem with the UN is the veto power that is held by the 5 permanent Security council members."

So one minute your against UN intervention, the next minute you FOR it? If only it wasn't due to that dammed Veto?

"Otherwise, the organization is pretty good."

No Dylan, when you have China, Syria and Libya sitting on the Human Rights commission, when you have countries that are ruled by ruthless dictators from Africa and Asia having the same value of vote as human-right abiding democracies ,the organization is not good.

"Hezbollah and Hamas... one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. They do some good for the people, but overall their methods are not convincing to any government to give in to their requests for change."

Ummm ok, so shouldn't we go after them as they are threatening the peace process? And shouldn't we go after the governments that harbor them (specifically Syria)?

"If they gave up their armed struggle would they still be terrorists?"

That's debatable. But I think should they gave up their armed struggle methods, then the terrorist label should'nt apply.

"If it were not for a bumbling international community post-WWII I'm sure Israel and Palestine would both have their own states and live in peace side by side. "

Which is why I believe that it is essential for governments that harbor these terrorists to face justice. And I agree with you that the bumbling international community is not helping with its silence on this matter.

Dylan I had no idea you were this misinformed!

 
At Thursday, 27 October, 2005, Blogger Dylan said...

I have never met an arab that is so pro-israel in my life.

I do not believe that Israel is as innocent in the Lebanese civil war as you claim them to be. Israel, like most other middle-eastern nations at the time, was concerned with expansion. This is key to their zionist beliefs that the Jews should hold all their historic lands regardless of who lives in them now (i.e the Golan Heights).

While I have spoken to Lebanese people about their occupiers, I believe that while Syria is not the best choice to govern the country (as stated originally) it is better than a continuous civil war that would just result in more organized death that war brings. Syria's occupation ended the militas and the terrorism that occured along with the civil war. This may not be a good thing, it may indeed have been trading one form of terrorism for another. But if that is your argument, then it's pretty much the same situation in Iraq - which you support.

While we're talking about the UN declaration of Human Rights commission, why don't we discuss Guantanamo Bay and the practices against it's detainees? The same argument can be made in favour of the Syrian government as the US' justification for holding these innocent men - "They're terrorists". What is the word of the US compared to the word of the Syrian government? I see this as a round-about argument that is a matter of opinion rather than fact.

I should clarify my position on the United Nations. I believe that intervention by the UN is worthwhile endorsing in almost every instance. The war in Iraq, was NOT adopted by the UN and therefore it's legitimacy, in my view, is put in jeopardy. Where I believe in the UN, I also believe in reforming it. Such as getting rid of the 5 permanent seats and their veto votes on the Security Council (which would include the USA). This, of course, will never happen. You argue that having a free-vote in the UN should be based said nations human-rights record? The point of the UN isn't to have the West dictate how the world should be run, it's a place where all nations should have a say in the international community. Because, whether you like it or not, they're appart of it.

Hammas and Hezbollah, to water the scenario down, is like a man stealing bread to feed his family. In many cases, this is what is going on. Does Hamas not have some validity when they bomb an Israeli settlement that was taken away from them? Do these groups not have some validity when they were kicked off their land since 1947 because the Jews want their turn? Again, I do not agree with their methods, but I can see the point they are trying to make. They want a nation for themselves and they should have it. They should have access to that land and they should have access to Jerusalem.

The defination of "terrorist" in my opinion is skewed towards a western bias and appeal. Is a terrorist an Arab with a gun shooting at an Israeli soldier? Yes. Is a terrorist an assassin who shoots at the president of his/her country? Yes. Is an Israeli settler a terrorist if he/she stones Palestinian children, or members of the Christian Peace-maker team? Yes. Is a soldier in Guantanamo hitting a detainee a terrorist? Yes.

Terrorism isn't just a guy shooting at an American soldier, or someone burning a Western flag. Terrorism ranges from Al-Qaeda, to the KKK, the Minute Men, ex-KGB agents running ex-soviet satilite nations under "democracy", to as simple as a typical school-yard bully.

When is a freedom figher, like George Washington, become a terrorist? And vice versa? When is the cause just enough for it to be considered worthy of our sympathy and not condemnation? This is decided how the West wishes it to be so. And that in itself, is not truth.

Perhaps I am not as informed on Rafik Hariri as you had imagined, for that I apologize. Otherwise, I believe my ideas are not so "misinformed" as are differant than yours. I am not so soft on Israel or the USA as you are. This does not make me less-informed as it just makes my opinions differing. Arguing whether or not Israel's intentions in the Lebanese civil war was to help the Lebanese from Syria, or it was an expansionist venture is opinion both with evidence to prove the others point. I would not call that misinformation. Your idea of the UN being good, or bad, again doesn't make my knowledge of the organization misinformed either.

I see these as differing opinions, and I am glad we can debate these issues and agree together on them. Infact, I enjoy posting these essays back and forth.

 
At Friday, 28 October, 2005, Blogger The Arabian Knight said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At Saturday, 29 October, 2005, Blogger The Arabian Knight said...

crap!! I accidentaly dleted a long refute to all of that. I'll see If I can add it back on.

 
At Thursday, 15 July, 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

借錢 借貸 票貼

 

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