Friday, June 02, 2006

Question mark on the Haditha massacre:

In the Arab World whenever a military operation that ends up with mass civilian casualties, you’ll never hear the end of it. They’re would be marches, angry callers who voice their opinions about the Great Satan to live Al Jazeera programs, front-page world war 3 type headlines in government controlled newspapers, angry marches fom Morocco all the way to Oman. So you would think that after the Haditha massacre they’re would be a similar reaction, especially when we consider the details of the killings.

However, it was something that was never brought up even in city council meetings:

Kimber said he heard nothing about a civilian massacre during city council meetings and talks with local leaders.
"It would have been huge, there would have been no question it would have filtered down to us," he said. "We reported no significant atmospheric change as a result of that day."


Something’s fishy in this case. Especially when we consider that an embedded journalist who was stationed with the accused Marines has a contradicting storey which could very well clear the accused Marines.

12 Comments:

At Friday, 02 June, 2006, Blogger Shameer Ravji said...

I just think this whole story is overhyped, since the folks in the Arab world are always full of conspiracy theories, and plant all kinds of false accusations such as this story in the media. As for the way the Americans are dealing with it, it's just more window dressing and pandering to the Arab world in a pathetic attempt to get them to like the U.S. Note to President Bush, you tried this shit concerning another overhyped story where there was nothing there, Abu Ghraib, and things didn't really improve.

What's even more disgusting is how leftists who are so full of shit (yes, that includes you Jack Murtha) keep hyping up this story in order to slander the troops and convict them before they've even been charged. What's also disturbing is how Murtha was slandering the troops 24/7, even on Memorial Day, of all weekends.

I have yet to see any "smoking guns" (pardon the expression), but just a lot of bullshit theories, and stories from anti-American trash on ground who are likely born liars.

 
At Friday, 02 June, 2006, Blogger PhillTaj said...

You know what I think is stupid? Memorial Day Sale events! I dont know what is more offensive, criticizing the troops on MD, or going to wal-mart so you can get 25% off lawn care supplies.

Anyways, the U.S. military has conducted its own independent investigation, and has come to the conclusion that at least some atrocities took place. At this point its kind of hard to deny it. Soldiers do snap in war. The only way this thing can be contained is if the U.S. military tackles it head on. Alot of Iraqies were actually very impressed with the Investigation.

 
At Friday, 02 June, 2006, Blogger The Arabian Knight said...

All I'm saying is that a massacre of this magnitude and method could not have happned without a widescale outrage that could seriously destablize the country 10 times moreover.

It could have occured. Like you said in war time, soldiers snap, as we've seen in every single armed conflict known to man, but the reaction to this seems odd. Something is not right here.

 
At Friday, 02 June, 2006, Anonymous Adam said...

You're right, man. After something like this, you'd think there would be a bunch of Iraqis trying to get revenge by killing US soldiers, or something. And yet we've hardly seen any of that. Weird.

Don't hold your breath for the "smoking guns" though - they can be notoriously hard to find...

 
At Friday, 02 June, 2006, Blogger The Arabian Knight said...

After a storey like this, the whole damn country would have exploded in uproar, not just "a few Iraqis".

 
At Friday, 02 June, 2006, Blogger Lord Kitchener's Own said...

Two things.

First: "In the Arab World whenever a military operation that ends up with mass civilian casualties, you’ll never hear the end of it."

Yeah, those crazies! Always getting upset about a silly little thing like "mass civilian casualties". What whinners!

Second:

I heard this being discussed by Middle East experts on Studio 2 this week and they specifically brought up the fact that this was a much bigger story in the U.S. than in Iraq. Why? Because there are so many kidnappings, bombings and assasinations going on in Iraq every single day that a story about 20+ civilians who were killed 6 months ago doesn't come close to making the front page. The Pentagon reported this week that their latest figures show an average of 600 attacks occuring each week, the highest level they have found since they started tracking this data two years ago, and on the day the report was released (Tuesday) 54 people were killed, almost all civilians (one American soldier was killed that day) and the largest single attack killed 25 people, and wounded 65 others.

Now, Haditha is different of course, in that reports suggest that the Marines involved there deliberately targeting civilians, including women and children, many of the victims being shot in the back while in their homes. I would have thought that since it is American investigators, and Congressmen and Senators on both sides of the aisle who have been given briefings on the investigation who are raising the alarm here, and not Iraqis in the streets, that that would INCREASE your belief in the story's veracity, but I suppose not.

As for the reporter whom you claim has a "contradicting story", she may serve as an excellent character witness, but as the article you link to CLEARLY STATES that she was no longer with the Marines when the alleged massacre occured, I'm unclear as to how someone who was not even in Haditha that day could possibly "clear the accused Marines". No one's claiming the Marines had been running through Iraq for months on end killing civilians. The claim is that when one of their own was killed by an IED they "snapped" and went on a rampage. That sort of thing happens in war, and the fact that this reporter documents months and months of these Marines facing extremely stressful and dangerous duty seems to me to indicate it's not at all impossible that one of their friends being killed right in front of them could have sent them over the edge.

We'll need to wait for a final report of course, but this all became a big story when it came out that investigators had found that many of the victims had been shot in the back at close range, that investigators were strongly considering murder charges against those involved, and that members of Congress were briefed that they should start preparing for the fallout, because criminal charges were likely to be laid by the military. So, you may doubt that this really happened because you haven't heard reports of protests in the streets (or rather, don't remember hearing reports of protests in the streets 6 months ago when it happened), but the Pentagon, the NCIS, President Bush, and the Republican controlled Congress all seem to think that something tragic and illegal happened here, so I'm going to lean towards their intuition, not yours.

 
At Friday, 02 June, 2006, Blogger Lord Kitchener's Own said...

Oh, sorry, I also meant to point out that your "details of the killings" link above links to an article about an unrelated civilian death in another part of Iraq. In fact, the article you link to specifically states "The death was unrelated to the November shootings of as many as two dozen civilians in the western Iraqi city of Haditha". Presumably you just pasted in the wrong link, so just FYI.

 
At Friday, 02 June, 2006, Blogger Shameer Ravji said...

"Yeah, those crazies! Always getting upset about a silly little thing like 'mass civilian casualties'. What whinners!"

How many of these accusations end up being bogus? Almost all of them. Everyone jumps on this feeding frenzy based on what some anti-American Arabs say. You can just add Haditha to the list.

 
At Saturday, 03 June, 2006, Anonymous steve said...

I did'nt notice any uproar in the Arab street back when Saddam was busy killing his citizens,

 
At Saturday, 03 June, 2006, Blogger The Arabian Knight said...

"Yeah, those crazies! Always getting upset about a silly little thing like "mass civilian casualties". What whinners!"

Ok concentrate here. I was merely pointing out that whenever their are mass civilian casualties of this nature (intentional killing by Western Forces on Arabs/Muslims) the uproar would be huge. The outrage never occured.

"I heard this being discussed by Middle East experts on Studio 2 this week and they specifically brought up the fact that this was a much bigger story in the U.S. than in Iraq. Why? Because there are so many kidnappings, bombings and assasinations going on in Iraq every single day that a story about 20+ civilians who were killed 6 months ago doesn't come close to making the front page."

One fault among Middle Easterners is that the killing of their people by their own kind tends to have a mute reaction. Whereas killing by U.S/UK forces tends to be met with alot more outrage. Even among Iraqis. And even then, the Arab street was very quiet on this matter, the reaction to something like this would not be limited to Iraqis only.

"I would have thought that since it is American investigators, and Congressmen and Senators on both sides of the aisle who have been given briefings on the investigation who are raising the alarm here, and not Iraqis in the streets, that that would INCREASE your belief in the story's veracity, but I suppose not."

I believe what US lawmakers are doing right now is trying to let it be known to Iraqis that they don't take actions like that from their military lightly and trying to display that Justice is served within their military. Sort of what they did during Abu Ghraib.

"As for the reporter whom you claim has a "contradicting story", she may serve as an excellent character witness, but as the article you link to CLEARLY STATES that she was no longer with the Marines when the alleged massacre occured"

No, but she did note many strane signs that contradict what the charge is.

"No one's claiming the Marines had been running through Iraq for months on end killing civilians."

That's funny, becuase reading to what many anti-war types have been spewing, that's ALL the US military has been doing.

"but the Pentagon, the NCIS, President Bush, and the Republican controlled Congress all seem to think that something tragic and illegal happened here, so I'm going to lean towards their intuition, not yours."

And ALL i'm saying (again) is that for this type of thing to happen and not illiciting a loud crie of outrage from the Arab street is strange. All I said was "Something's fishy". But hey, you believe what you want to believe.

 
At Sunday, 04 June, 2006, Blogger Louise said...

Philltag, do you have any links or whatever to support this statement:

"Alot of Iraqies were actually very impressed with the Investigation. "

 
At Friday, 16 July, 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

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