Saturday, June 10, 2006

WOW…From a self-described Liberal nonetheless.

To the people who reacted angrily when I suggested that its actually the left that has demonstrated more bigotry and racism against middle easterners since 9/11, get a load of this guy who left this message on my previous post:

We need to decrease immigration from the Arab countries. That's the best way.


Heh. And I thought that Liberals were supposed to be the "enlightened" ones compared to us "xenophobic" and "racist" Tories.

But truth for the matter is such a decision would likely bring in more radicalization within the Muslim community in Canada and would not help Canada's message abroad of trying to help, not strangle, Arabs and Muslims in achieving a more secure and democratic life.

The best way to wipe out the threat of terrorists from Muslim Extremists is to change the very conditions in the Middle East that help breed their kind of philosophy. And there's no other way of achieving that other than a radical overhaul in the status-quo in the Middle East. That means pressure on the totalitarian leaders who who's interest it is to keep things the way they are in that region.
Contrary to what many people want you to believe that's easier said than done. It's not a problem that can be fixed in 5 or 10 short years, it might take a generation or more for the Middle East to finally rid itself of its self-destructing virus that's taking that region to the gutter. It’s a non-traditional war, a war that has to be won not only on the battle fields of Afghanistan or Iraq or even Palestine but in the minds of Muslims worldwide.

And winning the hearts and minds of people in the region doesn't just mean things like Foreign Aid, but rather a message. A message which states that the fundamentalist ideology held by some Muslims in the world cannot a widely accepted belief for the two-world to peacefully co-exist. That doesn't mean appeasing the hardliners by withdrawing from Afghanistan or Iraq, or cowering to the threats of the Iranian President.

An action like this tends to strengthen the resolve and dedication of the Jihadi fighters. To give you an example, I remember clearly a few days after the Israeli withdrawal from Southern Lebanon in 2000 listening to the Friday Sermon in my mosque.

What do you think the sermon was about? You think after Israel withdrew from its fighting from Lebanon the Imam's message was "The Jews have sent us an Olive Branch! Let’s put down our weapons and negotiate a proper way for co-existence among our people"? No effin way! It was very much "Jihad Works!! On to Jerusalem!"

And that's where were stuck, we either carry on fighting in those hotspots, ridding as much Jihadists as we can along the way, while helping democratic and enlightened reform to take hold that will help diminish the amount of future Jihadis taking shape WHILE taking losses. OR…we can withdraw, strengthen their resolve and deal with a much worse and dedicated Islamist threat 5 or 10 years down the line.

The choice is that clear.

21 Comments:

At Saturday, 10 June, 2006, Blogger AT said...

I hate entering into a blog war. Therefore, I am not going to. Please don't call me a racist or bigot. It's not us, the Liberals, who are trying to take away the rights of the homosexuals to marry.

You are saying that this policy of restricting immigration from arab countries would make Muslims more radical. Well, to tell you the truth, it was the Iraq war which made the Muslims most radical. It made them alienated in the western world. You are now even suggesting make the arab countries follow our form of government. These countries have never been exposed to democracy. It would have to come from inside. We cannot force them to accept democracy if they are not ready yet.

Majority of the terrorists are from the Arab countries. Therefore, decreasing immigration from those countries might help at this moment. I got no problem with merit based immigration but majority of these immigrants enter as refugees. I have problem with that. Instead of going to Arab countries and bombing them for terrorism, let's just restrict immigration from there. In this way, we are happy and they are happy as we are not imposing our culture on them.

Besides, I wouldn't say that liberals are the enlightened ones. In my blog, I have said some positive stuff about the Tories recently and criticized the Liberals for not being flexible ones when it comes to government control.

 
At Saturday, 10 June, 2006, Anonymous x2para said...

liberals support racist and bigoted so called "employment equity" quotas therefore liberals are racists and bigots

 
At Saturday, 10 June, 2006, Anonymous Pamela said...

Hey - I just want to say is so nice to hear from someone thats Arab and is not anti-US. Lately it seems like a rarity!

Thanks my friend. Makes no difference where we came from. Humans come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, beliefs ect....

 
At Sunday, 11 June, 2006, Anonymous steve said...

When I was last in Cairo, so many young men came up to me, asking for help in coming to Canada.These guys were stuck either looking for work or in awful jobs, unable to travel outside the Arab World as it was hard to get visa's.
They watched TV and used the Internet, so they knew what they were missing.I would not deny any of these guys the chance to emmigrate, they were intelligent and would have made good immigrants.
Any terrorists are going to get in anyway,and it seems more likely here as in Britain that any terrorists is going to be a spoilt brat from the second
generation, who too much time on their hands.

 
At Sunday, 11 June, 2006, Anonymous Don Cox said...

The same war for minds had to be fought in Europe. It took many generations, and I don't think it is over yet. Maybe we are a bit further toward being tolerant and rational than many in the Middle East. But you don't have to go far back to find the IRA, or WWII, or the 30 years' war. The basic problem is, how to prevent narrow, ignorant, intolerant people from doing what they all want to do, which is fighting their way into power over others. It is a problem of psychology and politics.

 
At Sunday, 11 June, 2006, Blogger Mr Ed said...

until you can find a way to address radicals without radical measures...be it religion or politics or whatever, you'll have this problem. The answer is in education and teaching what's at the core of both Muslim, Christian, and almost every belief system ever invented... tolerance and a "golden rule" belief system. Unfortunately, fear and hate exists, and there are extremists on both side ready to take advantage of weak minded and/or blind followers out there that are willing to jump on the holy war band wagon in both camps... Maybe what the world really needs to do is round all those people up and reopen the Collosium in Rome for them to just go at each other there... a new reality show?

 
At Sunday, 11 June, 2006, Blogger The Arabian Knight said...

"Please don't call me a racist or bigot. It's not us, the Liberals, who are trying to take away the rights of the homosexuals to marry."

Proposing a vote to repopen the debate where the worst case scenario would be that the Union between same sex couples would not be labelled a "Mariage" is hardly "taking rights away". And what the heck is your point anyway? Just because your in favour of gay rights, that means your tolerant to ALL members of society? Give me a break. Your mask has slipped bub.


"You are saying that this policy of restricting immigration from arab countries would make Muslims more radical. Well, to tell you the truth, it was the Iraq war which made the Muslims most radical."

Yeah because prior to 2003 the middle east was a giant stable, democratic, and tolerant society /sarcasm off. And had you actually followed up on Middle Eastern matters, you'd realize that the voices of moderation on that side of the atlantic has increased, not decreased.

"You are now even suggesting make the arab countries follow our form of government."

I've got a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue with your name on it if you can tell me where exactly do the words "our form of government" comes up in the post. I'm calling for some kind of democratic and societal reform in the middle east that would benefit all people and not just the totaltarian pricks who are now in power in the region. Doing so is healthy for ALL societies, and is the best hope of fighting fundamentalism at the root (Debate, dissent, representation, etc...).

But if your that pessimistic about wholesale change in the region, I'd be more than happy to listen to your suggestions on what to do to stem the tide of extreamism.

"Majority of the terrorists are from the Arab countries. Therefore, decreasing immigration from those countries might help at this moment."

No, if we use the brodside definition of "Terrorism" you'd realize that the majority of terrorists are not arab.

But you know what's sad about this, if I used your logic, and stated, "Hey most of the crime in Toronto is commited by Jamaican Gangs, Let's stop/decrease immigration from Jamaica into Canada", your Liberal Buddies would be screaming Bloody Murder. What's with the double standard?

"let's just restrict immigration from there. In this way, we are happy and they are happy as we are not imposing our culture on them."
*Sigh* This "If were nice to them, they'll be nice to us" philosphy is wrong wrong wrong. America isn't imposing its culture on the Middle East, the people there are free to purchase anything they want. No one has put a gun to their head and ordered them to eat Mcdonalds or listen to 50 Cent. People do those things out of their own will and purchasing power.

"Besides, I wouldn't say that liberals are the enlightened ones. In my blog, I have said some positive stuff about the Tories recently and criticized the Liberals for not being flexible ones when it comes to government control."
I have to admit your blog is an interesting read. Your point of views are interesting from time to time. Which is why I was pissed in the first place when you made that dumb comment.

 
At Sunday, 11 June, 2006, Blogger D.C. said...

We cannot force them to accept democracy if they are not ready yet.
The dictators and their armies of terrorists are not ready, but the people are.

Ask anyone, anywhere in the world or in any prisons in Islamic or other totalitarian nations: Do you want to live free and therefore in peace, or would you rather stay in your cage and be constantly under death threats?

To say that Arabs in Islamic nations are not ready for freedom is to misunderstand human nature.
All human strive for freedom, even animals.

Arabian Knight, I really like your persective, you have big fans among us.

 
At Sunday, 11 June, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Liberals are so dumb it's annoying. The Iraq war didn't radicalize Muslim terrorists - because - now please try to understand this concept - the Iraq war began in 2003 - now please, liberals, think slowly, not too fast - the 9/11 attacks were in 2001. If you look at a thing called a Calendar, you can see that 2001 comes before 2003!

If you're still a dumb liberal and can't figure this out - simply switch the TV from CNN to Sesame Street for the latest information tailored to the liberal mindset.

 
At Monday, 12 June, 2006, Blogger KNL said...

AK, great post as always. I notice this kind of bs all the time here in the States (I'm in Connecticut, it doesn't get much bluer the town I'm in has one seat reserved on the city council for Republicans, all the others are for Democrats, and none for third parties like Libertarians). It is always refeshing to hear from a like minded Middle Easterner (not obsessed w/ Palestine and Jews and not worshipping a dictator like a saint for instance).

As to decreasing Arab immigration: you hit the spot. That idea makes no sense, it's irrational and makes my skin crawl in its level of simplicity and foolishness.

Ya owned `em. QED.

 
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At Tuesday, 13 June, 2006, Blogger KNL said...

You should get the Haloscan commenting system as I have on mine, it weeds out span like the above.

Nouri

 
At Tuesday, 13 June, 2006, Blogger Shlomo Muslim Ph.D. said...

Nobody's trying to force anyone to accept democracy. We just removed some of the apparachics who kept cutting the legs out from under all the democratizing forces.
The dictators and their armies of terrorists will never be ready, but we agree, people want to live free and in peace.

I think you'll find what's being said at http://www.the-muslim-question.blogspot.com/ also relevant to this discussion if you believe it's human nature even for Arabs in Islamic nations to be ready for and to want freedom.
-Shlomo

 
At Wednesday, 14 June, 2006, Blogger BBS said...

Congrats - Best of the Blogs

 
At Sunday, 18 June, 2006, Blogger Louise said...

Whoooeeeee!!! Arabian Knight, I just read your stinging attack on the catty catnip. Way to go!!!

Has she banned you yet? I noticed she threatened to. She banned me for disagreeing with her and I wasn't even close to being as agressive as you are in that thread. I know at least one other blogger who she has also banned. What a dipstick.

BTW, if she has banned you, or any of your readers, you can comment on her drivel on my blog, which I set up in response to her banning me, among other reasons.

I don't know if you have ever visited Iraqi Bloggers Central, but it's a blog that was set up for the very same reason - to allow comments and reaction to the handful of Iraqi bloggers who did not allow comments because they couldn't take anyone disagreeing with them.

Anyway, great arguments, my friend. You've zeroed in on the most tender of the left's Achilles Heals, and they've got lots of them, namely, their blatant hypocrisy.

 
At Sunday, 25 June, 2006, Blogger Leap Frog said...

Not surprised that a 'screeching liberal' would actually say that - "restrict immigration from Arab countries", goes right along with the nuke 'em all crowd and there was no terrorism before Iraq...

This catnip person is very limited in her ability to see the whole global political scene, obviously.

 
At Monday, 26 June, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aside from being nauseatingly partisan, there's a lot of just blatant untruths in these comments.

And I thought that Liberals were supposed to be the "enlightened" ones compared to us "xenophobic" and "racist" Tories.
Seriously. Just because one dimwit (who describes himself as a "right-leaning Liberal") says something stupid, it doesn't make the Tories any less xenophobic. He may have said that, but the tories are perpetuating the racist immigration policies of their Liberal predecessors.

To give you an example, I remember clearly a few days after the Israeli withdrawal from Southern Lebanon in 2000 listening to the Friday Sermon in my mosque.
Interesting though that the same people who call for these withdrawals are the ones who protest the invasion the first place. Invading and occupying countries is illegal and wrong, and at the end of the day it breeds more terrorism than it abolishes. If Israel and the US really cared about reducing the threat of terrorism agains their populations they wouldn't invade in the first place.

 
At Tuesday, 27 June, 2006, Anonymous The Raccoon said...

Anonymous -

Right. So you say that Israel and USA should sit tight and hope for the best when terrorists target their civilians? An interesting attitude. I guess you've never seen a suicide bombing, did you?

Google up the reasons for Israeli invasion of Lebanon. You'll find that Israeli civilians were being constantly attacked by terrorists from Lebanon... And see the aftermath - attacks on Israeli citizens from Lebanon decreased drastically in frequency.

 
At Thursday, 29 June, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Google up the reasons for Israeli invasion of Lebanon. You'll find that Israeli civilians were being constantly attacked by terrorists from Lebanon... And see the aftermath - attacks on Israeli citizens from Lebanon decreased drastically in frequency.

That's entirely untrue. The second Israeli invasion of Lebanon CREATED Hezbollah. Right through the 1970s, Israeli strikes on Southern Lebanon vastly outnumbered rockets fired by Palestinian militants. The invasion of 1982 was entirely unjustified and resulted in the deaths of tens upon tens of thousands of innocent civilians during soulless massacres like in Sabra and Shatilla. The 1982 invasion was illegal and condemned on countless levels. And, as can be predicted by a child, it increased the threat of terrorism from Palestinian militants. Militant groups sprang up in retaliation for the illegal invasion and attacks on Northern Israel increased following the invasion in the 1980s (though still dwarfed by the unnecessary use of force of the IDF).

The blogger even gave an anecdote of how after Israeli withdrawal there were calls for further attacks.

The point is, in addition to being unlawful and immoral, this kind of response to a terrorist attack is also tactically unsound.

 
At Tuesday, 04 July, 2006, Blogger The Arabian Knight said...

"Seriously. Just because one dimwit (who describes himself as a "right-leaning Liberal") says something stupid, it doesn't make the Tories any less xenophobic. He may have said that, but the tories are perpetuating the racist immigration policies of their Liberal predecessors."

Canada has a racist immigration policy?

"Interesting though that the same people who call for these withdrawals are the ones who protest the invasion the first place."

Correction, those who call for the withdrawals are the same people who want the status quo of bloodshed to remain. For some reason helping out the third world from despots and totaltarian leaders doesn't seem to be the Left's cup of Mocha. That doesn't exactly stop them from preaching action to end third world suffering...odd eh?

"If Israel and the US really cared about reducing the threat of terrorism agains their populations they wouldn't invade in the first place."

So in your view, they should just sit back, twiddle their thumbs and wait until they are attacked over and over again.

"That's entirely untrue. The second Israeli invasion of Lebanon CREATED Hezbollah."

Wrong again my dear sir. Hezbollah basiaclly morphed from the Amal movement (a movement that goes as far back to world war 1). Amal basically instititionalized their militants into an organization: Hezbollah. Evreything was there from the beggining bub, the rocket launchers, the tanks, the AK-47's, the grenades...the only difference is that in 1982 they had a name.


"And, as can be predicted by a child, it increased the threat of terrorism from Palestinian militants."

That's because they let Arafat and his dogs walk away from Lebanon to safe exile in Tunisia. Appesement made Arafat and the PLO believe that they wouldn't brought to justice any time soon, and therefore they...how shall I describe it...increased their productivity.


"The point is, in addition to being unlawful and immoral, this kind of response to a terrorist attack is also tactically unsound."

I see. And so I ask you what I have asked every single other lefty who I have debated in this manner:

What should we do to eliminate Islamic Terrorism?

 
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